because they haven't been sick. i am with eleanor on this. i think it will be duked out in the end on what your values are. african americans are for this because they need it. the working poor, they don't have health insurance and the whites are the other group in this case, they are against it. this will be duked out. you want health insurance or not from the government? >> mort. >> let me give you a factual. determine whether or not you were full-time or part-time work. the first six months of last year, these are labor statistics, we created jobs and lost 97,000 full-time jobs. now, we created, it balanced out a little bit, but that is a direct reflection of the anticipation that part-time jobs are not going to be covered by this insurance program. so in terms of employment, 65% of the jobs this year are part-

time jobs. this is all a reflection of the healthcare program. more than any other single issue and it is a disaster for the average american who is looking for a job. >> when the employer mandates, a year from now, what you talk about is going to hit hard and it's going to be another blow to this program. one of the things about this program is not the thing eleanor talks about, the website, which is going to be cured. but one after another, major problems to the program itself is coming down the road and there's a lot of democrats and i would predict that the democrats are going to ask for this individual mandate to be thrown off. >> okay. okay. all in the family. >> barack is not the only obama to promise you can keep your insurance. first lady, michelle obama, was secretary at her side, made the same claim to leaders of women's groups at the white house, quote, if you already have insurance and it seems there are a lot of people who are worried that they will lose what they have under this plan, but under this plan, if you

already have insurance, you are set. nothing changes. you keep your insurance. you keep your doctors, unquote. >> question, how could the white house staff from the chief of staff to the junior speech writers let the president and first lady put their credibility on the line with these false claims? >> . >> you got your doctor, you got your plan, you are not involved. help people who need it and most of doesn't tri said okay, we'll go along with that. >> it's true for 95% of people. and 95% -- >> the 5% are millions of people. >> and they will get a better deal. >> according to eleanor. >> according to eleanor and chris and the affordable care act. >> let's try this. okay, promises promises. >> secretary sebelius says the

cost will drop $2,300. and that's before any subsidies, depending on income and tax credit. here it is verbatim. middle class families purchasing private insurance in the new state-based health insurance exchanges could save as much as $2,300 per year in 2014, unquote. >> question, that promise of the $2,300 drop materialize next year, mort? >> all i can tell you is everybody in my company got a notice that their payments were going up and going up dramatically and they just got them yesterday in response to that bill. i can't talk for americans, all i can tell you in my own company is what happened and i think that is a disgrace for what this program is going to imply for a lot of american families. >> chris. >> the 5% that eleanor keeps referring to is the reality, 5% couldn't keep what they had are

junk policies, which don't cover hospitalization. deductions of $15,000. so if you get serious illness, you have to pay it out of pocket. sure it will reach that $2300 measure. reduction of what you have to pay when the insurance policy doesn't cover your problems. >> people don't like their policy and now you will take it away because they don't meet chris' standards. >> no, no. a lot of these policies are catastrophic policies. all they cover is the worse case scenario. >> that's what some kid 19 years old wants. >> that is not sharing the risk. and insurance companies yank these away as soon as you get sick. that $2300 is not a figure that kathleen made up. it's based on the congressional budget office estimates, which says the affordable care act is going to save money over a period. this is the beginning -- >> eleanor, you have serious

falsification here. falsification. okay, romney's retort. >> president obama went to boston this week to claim that his plan will work as well for america as mitt romney's universal coverage did for massachusetts. here's mitt romney's response. quote. nothing has changed my view that a plan crafted to fit the unique circumstances of a single state should not be grafted on to the entire country. health reform is best crafted by state with bipartisan support and input from its employers as we did without raising taxes and by carefully phasing it in to avoid the ty of disruption we are seeing nationally, unquote. romney, by the way, was not invited to attend the president's annual hall speech. defending obama care. >> question, who aside from mitt romney sees the current chaos as disruptive? >> i think romney was right on

the mark there. when you have a bipartisan, when the governor is helping you out to implement the program and the government is part of the program, it works. the state that is receptive to government in healthcare. when you go to mississippi, of course, they will do everything to throw monkey wrenches into the process who don't want to implement it. this is his statement. goes directly with obama is saying. wanting the thing to work and not wanting to work. >> there is also massive resistance which really rivals many. but mitt romney has, he has said numerous times before this clip that you just aired, a couple years previous to that, that he saw romney care, or the plan he developed and created in massachusetts as a model for the country. you can find that video tape quite easily, john, i'm sure you will. >> not for the country as a whole. >> no, he said the model for the country as a whole. >> exit question, on a credibility scale from 0 to

100. no credibility whatsoever and 100 meaning total credibility, what is president obama's current credibility rating? 0 to 100. >> four, the highest level of lying quite frankly, so today, noncredibility level is probably 8 out of 10. >> you hear that, matthews? >> i say 66. >> right. and -- >> 66. >> four times that of his critics. >> what's your answer to the question? >> i'll go with the 66 and point out four times what the credibility of republicans in this debate. >> i think it's 38.79%. >> 38.79. we have to be precise on this show, john. >> okay, mclaughlin.com and answer to your comments. the mclaughlin.com does have its own website and you can watch our program or any of the recent programs, we go back to

several decades on the web at any time from anywhere in the world at mclaughlin.com and leave a comment yourself. issue two, cyber warriors unite. >> it's invaluable to us to know where countries are coming from, what their policies are, how that would impact us across a whole range of issues. so, it isn't just leaders themselves, it's what goes on around them and the policies that they convey to their governments. >> james is the director of national intelligence. aka, the u.s. ace spy men. he confirmed this week to a house committee, the u.s. does in fact spy on foes. and friends alike. director believes that such spying 101 should be obvious to all. >> some of this reminds me a lot of the classic movie,

casablanca. there's gambling going on here. it's the same thing. >> i'm shocked to find gambling is going on in here. >> thank you very much. >> well, not everyone agrees that espionage is expected. like some of our allies that we spy on, europe reacted officially with visible irritation to report that 35 foreign leaders were being monitored by the u.s. including german chancellor,, now viewed as the most powerful woman in the world. madame merkel was furious after it surfaced that her phone calls have been tapped for years. she called president obama to demand it stop. >> i repeat, the spying among friends is not at all acceptable for anyone. she was born in communist east

germany where the chief of police were using a delegation to washington this week to protest the surveillance. the chairman of the european parliament foreign affairs committee is brook. a distinguished german. he wants a no-spying pledge from the u.s. >> never spy on your friends. >> some members of congress agree. the head of the senate intelligence committee, dianne feinstein, is calling for a quote unquote, major review of u.s. intelligence operations. miss feinstein has been a traditional defender of the nsa. but she says she did not know of the monitoring of miss merkle neither did susan collins, a 17 year veteran of the u.s. senate. >> absolutely no justification for our country should be collecting intelligence information on the leaders of

some of our closest allies. >> the reports of nsa spying, by the way, all flow from the studious work by former nsa contractor, edward snowden. >> the national security agency took the unusual step thursday of denying a report that'ves drop on the vatican phone calls and may have tapped in on pope francis before he was elected. what are you making up? is this a church, state issue? >> you got in on the consistent, the ones that depict the new pope, john? >> who knows. saved a lot of money. those guys have not done anything that was not known to the national security council and the white house and the idea of blaming these guys who are doing the job they were signed to do and oh my goodness, for miss feinstein, that there's a touch of hypocrisy here. >> there's a lot of outrage. i'm with clapper on this issue

as well. i mean, i think because of the technological advances and the fact that we can now, you know, look in on people's cell phones, that you know, there has to be some more guidelines brought into this thing. but overall, friends spy on friends, it's not going to stop. >> what do you think of that? >> i think, well, i'm not enough people, clearly. there's no doubt that this has been going on for ever in one form or another. you can't tell me that the administration didn't know about it, because they were given reports about all of this. this came from -- this is ridiculous. so we all knew it was going on. they have been doing it in europe for decades and centuries. and this is being a part of life in the world and alas, everybody had to be protesting. >> congratulations on this book. do you think that a tip was monitoring the phone calls? >> i tell you one thing.

it isn't like today in that you are blessed at 3:00 in the afternoon and say what time is it over there? changes our watch to six. they fought lake irish guys. they fought like mad over everything. but in the end, there was this wonderful period. they would sign a peace treaty. they did fix social security. he did back reagan up on the cold war. and a 28% topped rate, but equal liesing the rate you pay for a real income, earned income, and equity income. they did a lot of good things on northern ireland, too. >> they had aids who knew how to work together and the white house, because i was covering l white house. they put everything together and then reagan came in and sealed the deal. >> we were like friends and they worked back and forth, but this was a fight all the time. i think he can fight philosophically all the time and still know you have a duty to do your job. >> here's a copy of matthew's job. get a closeup of the book, please. >> john, i owe you one.

okay, they do it, too. >> is it your experience that allies of the united states have spied on the united states historically? >> yes. >> or even as we speak? >> yes. >> the director of the nsa, the national security agency, general keith alexander, defended u.s. spying on european allies. and pointed to their espionage against the u.s. he also said that some reports and foreign papers about the nsa elected the phone numbers of millions of citizens in france, spain, and italy were false. the nsa collects data to be sure. but with the help of europe itself. >> to be perfectly clear, this is not information we collected on european citizens. it represents information that we and our nato allies have collected in defense of our

countries and in support of military operations. >> question, does the cooperation of european intelligence services blunt the issue of u.s. eves dropping? pat. >> john, what the united states did was the nfc got the addresses and phone numbers of 35 of our closest friends, turned them over to the nsa and said tap and cape every single one of them. when you do that, you aught to expect that some of your friends are going to get ticked off at you and some are going to be exfriends. >> the second day story was that the french and the germans who collected all this stuff and shared it with us. so you know, i think people need to -- >> it's a wonderful world. >> it's the world we live in and we should be grateful we haven't been hit for a decade. >> there's one problem, they got caught. we changed everything. >> you know you had to think about it, but look, this guy,

snowden, had access to all this material and was able to walk out of it, tells you something about the security we absolute >> people have a tough security clearance that live in the district of columbia. a lot of people have access to the government. >> do national security -- please. do national -- thank you. do national security interests warrant this kind of wiretapping? >> i believe it does. >> let me give you the reasoning for it. >> the nuclear negotiations with iran, the next round is november 7 and britain, france, must stand united to achieve a negotiated resolution that is verifyable. that's why it is useful to know what our allies are really thinking. do you understand? should we plug in and find out before the negotiations and we know how -- >> there's a price to be paid if you are going to wiretap and you have to ask yourself, is it worth it to do that if you are going to ruin a relationship,

which is vital. >> oh come. >> the line needs to be drawn. that's where the line needs to be drawn. >> relationships were poisoned for ever. >> they aren't listening to the conversations. it is metadata. issue three, christie and company. >> committed to be the best governor new jersey can have for as long as i can do it. neither one of us have a crystal ball. i've been honest with the people of new jersey and told them exactly that. i'll do this job as long and as aggressively as i possibly can and my current intention is to spend four years, but we'll see what happens. you never know what life is going to bring you. >> did chris christie just show 2016 ankle? christie is facing an election next week to be reinstalled. if he wins as governor for

another four years, his democratic opponent is state senator, barbra buono. assuming she serves a second term, the presidential election in 2016 would come mid way through that second term as governor. what do new jersey's voters think of their governor running for president? a majority, 48 to 41 percent say go for it. and if he does go for it, who would he face? no one has officially thrown his or her hat in the ring, but here are some rumor gop contenders. kentucky senator, ron paul. marco rubio. texas senator, ted cruz. wisconsin representative, paul ryan. louisiana governor, bobby jindal. jeb bush, wisconsin governor, walker. north carolina governor, nikki hailey. new mexico governor, susana

martinez. mary fallon. >> are you assimilated to all of those names? it's an easy question. who has the best chance to be the gop front runner? >> it's a good list and the winner will be ran paul. >> is that right? >> ran paul will win the whole thing. he can win in iowa, new hampshire, and he's the only candidate that can win all three. >> what is vegas saying? >> i don't think they have a book on this yet. >> chris said that months ago maybe even and i first thought it was absurd, but i come around to agree. ted cruz in there, he can look like the reasonable candidate. >> let's look at cruz's biography. cruz control. >> i intend to speak in support of defunding obama care until i am no longer able to stand. >> senator ted cruz catapulted to the limelight with his 21- hour filibuster against obama

care. born 1970, age 42, in canada. married, two daughters. public policy, 1992, harvard law school, jd, 1995. law clerk, chief justice, supreme court of the united states 1996 to 1997. domestic policy adviser, pushed presidential campaign. 1999 to 2000. associate deputy attorney general to u.s., department of justice, 2001. director, office of policy planning, federal trade commission 2001 to 2003. solicitor general of texas, 2003 to 2008, argued before the u.s. supreme court nine times. adjust professor of law, university of texas law school. 2004 to 2009. partner, morgan, lewis, 2008 to 2012. senator, u.s. senate, 2013 now. you got that memorized?

>> in the primaries, two brackets. there's an establishment bracket and a populous bracket. i think cruz is going to be competitive and your friend from new jersey will start off as the lead in the establishment bracket. >> ran paul is a good man, but not as of right now for sure. >> cruz's mother is an american citizen. the baby was born in canada. that makes cruz an american citizen. go ahead. >> look, i think cruz is a brilliant man, but he is so radical in his position, political positions that he will never, in my judgment, cross the divide to become a national candidate. and christie is a fantastic candidate and has unbelievable political scale. >> who is the candidate? we have four seconds. >> i said ran paul. who is the candidate? >> ran paul. the individual healthcare mandate will be put off for one year. yes or no? >> no. >> no. >> yes. >> yes. >> out of time.

bye bye. looking for these? it could be one very expensive ride. >> first, you have to make bail. then pay me to get your car back. >> their insurance premiums will go through the roof. >> my legal fees just keep adding up. all tolled, they can end up costing you $10,000. >> buzzed, busted, and broke, because buzzed driving is drunk driving.

>> rose: welcome too the program. we begin this evening with nancy pelosi, the minority leader of the house of representatives. >> this again it is a bad, about the product and the good we started three months in advance of the implementation coming in january, so there is time to work all of this out. >> rose: all your republican colleagues is just want to delay it, let's delay it until we are ready. of course, they want to delay it until it is gone and again if any of them had even any positive idea about what this means for their constituents, but they don't want it to succeed mainly because it is anish if the of president obama. >> rose: we conclude this evening with james toback, he is the director of a new films called "seduced and abandoned".

>> and seduce is, what "seduced and abandoned" is about more than movies and money and glamor is about death and as sam jewel johnson said at the beginning of the graphic of the movie nobody is willing to live until he accepts his own mortality. and i ask everybody in the movie, i am not going to ruin it by saying what they say, american the movie i spring it on in the last ten minutes are you ready to die? >> rose: nancy pelosi and james toback when we continue. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following. >>

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. > we did not work very hard, and many of us dedicate our public service to a red site, it was to, to a web site it was anish if the for affordable healthcare for all americans as a right not a privilege and that is what this initiative is about. >> rose: nancy pelosi is here. she is the minority leader of the house of representatives. she has represented her san francisco district for 26 years.

she was instrumental in passing the affordable care act in 2010, she was inducted last month into the national women's hall of fame. she is the only woman to have served as a speaker of the house. she is also the only national political leader whose approval rating rose during the political shutdown last month i am pleased to have her back at this table. welcome and congratulations. >> thank you very much. >> now here is what i want to tell you and want to start with this. this is what they wrote in politico about you last week. one thing for sure, pelosi's power and influence among her colleagues has returned to levels not seen since she served as speaker. her position in the democratic caucus already strong was further bolstered during the recent government shutdown and debt ceiling crisis. as the republicans fought each other, pelosi adeptly managed to hold her colleagues together and democrats ultimately gave speaker john boehner the lawn, lion's share of the votes to end the chaos. so how do you explain that? >> i explain it by saying that

my colleagues very much knew that a shutdown of government was the wrong thing to do. >> rose: yes. >> and this is a reflection of their determination to open up government and to end the threat of default onhe full faith and credit of the united states. >> rose: and you were ready to deliver. >> well we had promised before the shutdown, we said to the speaker, you don't need to shut the government down. we have 100 percent of votes that will go to keep government open. it is not that i was delivering them, it is that is what our members believe and it was a refrek shun, reflection of their determination and they didn't accept the offer and when they shut down the government almost every day we went to the steps and signed letters, went to the, lined up in the congress to say 100 percent of the democrats are there to open up government, and to end the threat of default. finally, 16 days later, they accepted the vote. >> rose: but he kept saying i don't have the votes, i don't know that i have the